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In the first episode of season two, we speak with Matt Faircloth, co-founder of The DeRosa Group. Under Matt’s leadership, DeRosa has completed over 30 million in real estate transactions involving private capital including fix and flips, single family home rentals, mixed use buildings, apartment buildings, office buildings, and tax lien investments. Matt Faircloth is an active contributor to BiggerPockets and leads a weekly mentorship series on DeRosa’s YouTube channel. Hear why Matt believes most aspects of life are all about playing the long game, how to recover when you encounter extreme hardship in your business dealings, and more.
Matt Rodak:
Welcome everyone to this episode of Real Estate Investing Unscripted. I'm your host, Matt Rodak, founder and CEO of Fund That Flip. I am once again super excited about our guest today. His name is Mr. Matt Faircloth. He is the owner of the DeRosa Group. Matt is also the author of Raising Private Capital: Building Your Real Estate Empire Using Other People's Money, published by Bigger Pockets. I'm sure we'll be talking about the book in a bit, but with that, welcome to the show Matt.
Matt Faircloth:
Thank you, Matt. Yeah. Awesome to be here. I'm really glad to be a guest on the show today.
Matt Rodak:
I always love having another Matt on the show.
Matt Faircloth:
Isn't it easy? "Hey Matt." "Hey Matt."
Matt Rodak:
Do you know -- I have to get this in here -- do you know what the name Matthew means?
Matt Faircloth:
A gift from God.
Matt Rodak:
Gift from God. Yes.
Matt Faircloth:
That's right. That's what you and I are. Just so you know, everybody, me and Mr. Rodak are gifts from God to all you people, so be grateful for us.
Matt Rodak:
Now everyone knows! Love having you here. We had your wife on a few episodes back. If you haven't checked that out, rewind a few episodes, and check that episode out. Another great episode. I would love to get your perspective about how you guys got started and a reminder for everyone of who the DeRosa Group is, and what you are up to down in the Trenton area.
Matt Faircloth:
The DeRosa Group has been through a lot of iterations. We were a decent size property management company. We've been a construction company for a while. We've gotten involved in different facets of real estate, but at the core we've always provided great housing for people and opportunities in real estate. The mantra for my company is "Transforming Lives Through Real Estate". I believe that real estate touches a lot of lives; whether that's people that invest in real estate, whether that's people that own it, whether that's people that work on it in construction, whether that's people that live in it. Our goal as a company and our mantra is to make people's lives a little bit better through our work in real estate, through what we do. That entails providing alternative investments for those that want to diversify their portfolio and invest in real estate through passive investments that we offer, for those that want to live in really unique spaces that we provide, and for those that want to work for an organization -- not as an employee, but as an affiliate for an organization -- that has plenty of integrity and that tries to take the high road no matter what.
Matt Rodak:
That's awesome. How did you guys come up with that? Was that something that was a founding principle for the business? Is that something you guys evolved into? Specifically, the Transforming Lives Through Real Estate.
Matt Faircloth:
When we first got started we did a lot of work in Trenton, New Jersey. Trenton is an emerging urban environment. It is an old steel town that's rebirthing itself, as many steel towns in our country have done. Our original mantra was Revitalizing Urban America. It was cool sounding, except that it sounded like we were a non-for-profit. People were like, "Hey, what do you guys do?" It wasn't clear what we as a company were up to, so we decided to change it up. We really got in tune with what it is we do and what our core values were. We had our core values written out and it was what I just said; alternative investments, quality housing, and a great, awesome place to work with lots of integrity.
It all really boiled down to: we're in real estate and we want to change people's lives. So, “Transforming Lives Through Real Estate” just came out of our mouths one day when we were sitting around brainstorming and rebranding the company. So, that's how that came up. It was about eight years ago that we came up with it.
Matt Rodak:
And it stuck and it's working! I think it is cool how -- don't quote me on the statistic -- but I think real estate in some form or fashion makes up 13% or 17% of the U.S. GDP.
Matt Faircloth:
I heard it was 25%.
Matt Rodak:
25%? Okay. It's a lot!
Matt Faircloth:
If you factor in all the sales of construction materials and all the finance work that's around real estate -- and that's commercial and residential -- real estate is something you cannot get away from. It touches a lot of the economy on a lot of different levels. There's so many different ways you can get involved in it. That's why I think it's such a powerful space to play in. If you have integrity in it, and you want to do the right thing by people, it's a great place you can make a difference too.
Matt Rodak:
Totally. One of the things I was hoping to pick your brain on was a topic that I think you're familiar with because you wrote a book on it. Especially for people that are getting started or scaling their business (and that's raising money), I think it can be both difficult to do, and for a lot of people it's intimidating. It's hard to go ask someone for money. I'd love to learn more about your story in terms of how you guys raised capital for your first deal, what did you learn, and how has your process evolved from your first deal to where you guys are at now.
Matt Faircloth:
Oh geez, the first deal. The true first deal was the house I lived in. It was -- what they call on BiggerPockets -- a house hack. If Liz went here when she was on the show, stop me. I bought a three bedroom, one bath. I lived in one bedroom and rented out the other two bedrooms to a couple of friends of mine. I ended up making $60 a month in profit and lived there for free. It was a phenomenal arrangement and I was able to really scale up my personal finances at that time. For a 25/26-year-old being able to live in a property for free with a couple of his buddies living with him, it was a phenomenal deal. That really turned my head to real estate from there towards the power of real estate. We never looked back since then. So, that was our first deal.
Our current deal, we're currently putting together capital for a 166-unit apartment complex in Kentucky. We've scaled, and grown, and gotten ourselves into all kinds of cool assets including office complexes and mixed-use buildings, and lots of fix-and-flips. It's slow growth, one foot in front of the other type of growth.
Matt Rodak:
What's your mentality? I think a big part of raising money is having the right mentality of raising money. I think a lot of people find it difficult to even wrap their heads around going to ask people for money. Talk us through your mentality and how your mentality has shifted over time.
Matt Faircloth:
When I first got into raising money it was going down on bended knee, being like, "Could you please do me a favor?" and "Would you believe in me?" and hoping that they decided to get in and that they'd go out on a limb for me. At the end of the day, I found out that over time -- it's not a cocky type of thing -- but there is a certain level of understanding that people that invest in what you and I do, they need us because they need alternative types of investments to get themselves into. So, my shift in consciousness has been that it is a symbiotic relationship. I need them just as much as they need me. With regards to my passive investors, I need them because I couldn't make my deals happen without them, but they also need alternative investments because aside from us the only other thing they have is Wall Street. There's no telling what Wall Street's going to do tomorrow.
Matt Rodak:
It's up 400 points again today after being down I don't know how many points.
Matt Faircloth:
Yeah, and what's it going do tomorrow?
Matt Rodak:
Who knows, right?
Matt Faircloth:
I'll tell you what will happen tomorrow is that the loans that you offer will most likely pay their interest. If they don't, they have collateral. The investments that I offer for people that are in apartment complexes, or private loans as well, will produce because they're involved in sticks and bricks that aren't going to just dissolve and go away. If you own Microsoft stock and Microsoft goes down to zero, I can promise you that you're not going to go take the CEO's house. But, if an investment that you or I get somebody involved in goes down, they at least have sticks and bricks standing behind their money.
Matt Rodak:
So, something tangible there.
Matt Faircloth:
Yeah. There's nothing tangible in Wall Street investments. Not to bad mouth or dog it, because I've done plenty of stocks and made money on stocks, but I don't think that they should be the end-all, be-all, only way that people make money for their retirement. They should have stocks but also have other things too.
Matt Rodak:
Yep. I want to pick up one of those things you mentioned there; the mentality shift of the person with the money has all of the power or they're doing you a favor. I think that's super important. There's a certain number of people out there that it's their job to invest money and they need good deals to invest them in. Where I sit now, it's my job to make loans. I need people like yourself and other operators to find good projects and be good operators. I think that's an important thing, especially for people that are trying to get their first deal financed. That mentality of what you have is a limited quantity. You have this property that you're buying, and you've got a perspective on how to fix it up and sell it. There's a lot of money. All money is green. There's only one opportunity like that in Kentucky for your 166-unit complex. That's the value in the relationship is being able to source the projects and do them right.
Matt Faircloth:
Although there's a lot of people out there on a lot of the online funding sites, it's hard to reach out and actually talk to the operator, the syndicator, or the sponsor -- whatever you want to call them -- for the deal. Or, to reach out and talk to you, the owner of the company out putting the loans to work on the street that are vetting those deals. Being able to really do your due diligence on what you're getting yourself into, it's good to have the data there, the human touch for folks to reach out to and talk to directly about what it is they're getting themselves involved with.
Matt Rodak:
One last question on raising private capital, how have you built up your Rolodex and your network of investors? How has that evolved over time and what are any tips or tricks you can give those listening in terms of building that Rolodex and keeping people warm so that you do have the capital firepower there for when you come across good deals?
Matt Faircloth:
Well -- this is not the true answer to your question. The answer to your question is how can folks that are listening expand their Rolodex and build their audience. The way that I did it is I did a YouTube channel, and I did regular posts on the YouTube channel. The real answer to your question is by doing things consistently. Pick a thing that is something that folks can track, see what you're up to, flying a flag somehow, and then doing it regularly. Before we got on, you and I talked about Joe Fairless and other folks that are out there that are big names in the business. Their secret sauce is just repeatability. They pick a play and they just run that play over and over again, to use a football term.
A lot of times in football when you see a team do that, if the play works, keep doing it. I think the answer is, for those that are listening, to find a thing you're good at doing that helps get your name out there with regards to what you're up to in business -- be that writing articles, be that Facebooking, be that a podcast, be that running a meetup -- that thing that allows people to notice you in a modest way. Not bragging or any of that but finding a way to get yourself into the public eye on a regular basis with a little bit humility and a little bit of the sincerity to just educate people and help them out. The money tends to just follow.
We do a lot of education on our YouTube page and it's not intended to raise investors, but it does. That's because we go out and educate people with integrity on our YouTube channel, talk about what we're learning in the business and talk in the field about what's going on in our company and deals that we're in the middle of. People tend to see the authenticity there. They see what we're up to and they see we're for real. We're not just some talking head that's online talking about real estate and not actually doing it. They see that and think, "Okay, these guys seem like they have their act together, let me check them out." So, that's the very long answer to your question. Really, repeatability is the answer.
Matt Rodak:
It's so true. There's a saying in the venture world, and I guess it probably applies to anyone that's raising money: investors don't invest in dots, they invest in lines. If you come to people and say, "I need money," that's a dot. If there's 10 dots before that -- like your YouTube channel, or your regular monthly email update, or a podcast or whatever it is -- they've got a bunch of different dots that they can now connect that forms a line. As opposed to just, "Here I am. Give me some money." The consistency thing, I think, is right on.
Matt Faircloth:
I agree. The alternative to being consistent about something is trying a bunch of different things, being willy-nilly and try this, try that. Believe me, I've done that. I can't say that everything that I've ever done in my business has always worked. I've tried going in a lot of different directions at once and I can tell you firsthand that does not work.
Matt Rodak:
It doesn't hurt to experiment, but at some point you have to commit to something and then give it a full go. Cool. I appreciate you sharing that.
The theme of the show is Real Estate Investing Unscripted with the idea being, no matter how much you plan, no matter how much experience you have, no matter how much you have penciled out all the details of a potential project, stuff just happens. Stuff goes wrong. Anything can happen in this space and if you're going to succeed, you got to be able to improvise a bit. We'd love to hear a story -- and I'm sure you've got plenty of them -- we'd love to hear a story from your perspective of where that happened to you. What did you guys learn, how did you get through it, and how is it impacting your business and your thinking going forward?
Matt Faircloth:
Yeah, hmm...ha ha.
Matt Rodak:
I love when people start to laugh because I just know a good ones coming.
Matt Faircloth:
Well, before we got on, we talked about an area of our business -- I could go here if you want -- but an area of our business where we expected things to go a certain way and then got our knees taken out. Then, we rebuilt from there. Is that where you want to go?
Matt Rodak:
Let's hear it, yep!
Matt Faircloth:
Actually, this is perfect because this involves, in some ways, Matt Rodak putting on his cape and swooping in and saving us -- or at least through an introduction. What happened was, we were raising capital for an apartment complex in North Carolina and we were raising $3.2 million. We had another apartment complex in Philadelphia that we were selling, it was under contract to sell. Our goal was to sell that apartment complex -- it's somewhat complicated, but it'll make sense when I explain it. We were going to sell that apartment complex in Philly, do a 1031 Exchange, take some of the proceeds from that, and invest it in North Carolina through something called a Tenant In Common. In a 1031 Exchange, the prior entity that's selling its asset has to own the actual dirt. You can't just sell a property and then invest as a limited partner in a larger company. We had to actually carve out a chunk of the new property through Tenant In Common. The two companies would own the new asset side by side with each other. It sounds complicated, but trust me, it was going to work. So, the sale of the property in Philadelphia was going to kick in $700,000. We were going to raise another $2.5 million out of our network. It was going to be a big stress for us, but I was pretty sure I could do it. I was able to raise the $2.5 million pretty quickly. That purchase was closing January 15th.
We closed on the apartment complex in Philly about a month or two before that in mid-November. $700,000 went to the 1031 Exchange custodian that I vetted online. I had spoken to the folks that work there. They seemed like a great company. They had some good reviews on BiggerPockets so I was very happy with them. I wired them the $700,000 and then went back to raising capital for my apartment complex. Fast forward to late December, a couple of weeks before closing. I called the 1031 company and I can't get ahold of anybody. I start to do a little bit of worrying and I searched on google and stuff like that. It turns out, long story short, that company was a front and the owner was running a Ponzi scheme. He was taking people's 1031 Exchange money, buying himself real estate assets, and burning through a lot of it. Just blowing it, and then robbing Peter to pay Paul. So, a new party would give him money, and then he would pay back the old party that was looking for their capital. He was running a Ponzi scheme and it just so happened that the carousel came to a halt when I had given him my capital. My $700,000 was gone, and I was left holding the bag and had to find a way to come up with the rest of the capital to go into this new apartment complex with about two weeks left.
None of it would've been okay, but this would have been less of an issue had this all been my money. I had raised investors that invested in that apartment complex in Philadelphia. So that $700,000, a lot of that money was not mine. A lot of that money was my investors' money through the limited partnership that we had raised to buy into that apartment complex in Philadelphia. You with me so far?
Matt Rodak:
I'm with you so far. So, you sold the property and gave it to a custodian. Which, by the way, their main job is to safeguard the money. Which is why they're called a custodian. They didn't do that and you’re out $700,000. If I'm doing the math right, you're $700,000 short on a $2.5 million purchase.
Matt Faircloth:
And I'm two weeks out from closing.
Matt Rodak:
You're two weeks out. Okay. So what happens?
Matt Faircloth:
What happens was, a lot of tears, a lot of prayer, and a lot of like, "Geez, what do we do?" It hit me pretty quickly what I needed to do. The new company -- my share of the new asset was 30%, along with my team. The $700,000 was going to buy 18% of the new asset. So, what I decided to do was give those investors of the $700,000, 18% of my side. So I pretty much gave away the majority. I ended up with literally a few percent ownership of the new asset because I covered them. I had to give them something and so I gave them my equity. I could have easily just called them up and said, "Hey guys, listen, we got robbed. We're going to find this guy, we're going to run them down, we're going to get it back. Don't you worry. Sit tight and I'll get back to you." But, I talked to a few of my friends that this was not something I wanted to do.
As I said before, we try and do things with integrity, so I put my investors first. It just seemed like the right thing to do from the get go. I told a few of my friends what I was going to do and they're like, "You're crazy. You can't go give your work away to them." But I was like, "You know what, I have to." These folks invested their hard earned capital with me and it's what I needed to do to make sure they were made whole. They put their faith in me, I need to cover them. I had to do it.
Matt Rodak:
That's the long term thinking. The short term thinking is, let me keep my 30%, these guys get screwed, and it sucks and they probably never...
Matt Faircloth:
We formed a class action. We're going after this guy. We formed a class action with a bunch of other investors. When he has a bunch of assets, we will get our money back from this guy, but it'll take probably 18 to 24 months to get our money back. It's a long, arduous process and a long road to get there. We will get to the finish line and get our money back from this guy, but I don't want those investors to have no collateral while we're working on getting that money back. So, I gave them my side of the apartment complex in North Carolina. The first move is, I got my people covered. When I'm talking shorthand, when I talk about my investors, I call them my people. So, those are my people. I got my people covered.
Matt Faircloth:
The other side of it is, okay, now I've got to go raise another $700,000 to get to closing. I dove back into my network, shook it as hard as I could, and was able to come up with another couple of hundred thousand in an investors. Then I needed a bridge loan, and so I called you! You have referred me to someone who was a great bridge, capital provider. It’s just great to know good people that are willing to do whatever they can to take care of you. You being one of them. I have not forgotten that referral that you gave us and who covered it. Again, he got paid very well for taking the risk that he did on such short notice, don't get me wrong. He wasn't just doing us a favor, he also did very well in that transaction as well, as he should. We were able to close. I didn't even have to move closing after getting $700,000 taken out from under us.
I talk more about this story in my book, Raising Private Capital. It wasn't easy to do, but I talked about it because I needed to caution investors or caution folks that are putting deals together that you cannot put yourself first. Most times, you will not be the first priority in these conversations. Your investors will be the first priority, but if you take care of them then you get to any more deals, and they'll take care of you.
Matt Rodak:
It's exactly right. That story proves that out. I get the call from you, and I'm happy to make an introduction to someone in my network. It's not a type of loan that we make here at Fund That Flip, but I'm not comfortable making that introduction to someone in my network if it's not a guy that I trust and that is going to do the right thing by the guy I'm going to make the introduction to. It's a virtuous cycle: if you're doing the right things and people see and know that you're doing the right things, then you get more opportunity. You get more looks. If it was someone else that I didn't know that well, that introduction probably doesn't get made.
Matt Faircloth:
I haven't thought about it that way. I talk about playing the long game in business. It's just good to play the long game so you rarely burned a bridge. You kiss and makeup if you get sideways with somebody because the long game is about realizing that most things in life are marathons. Very few things in life are short-lived, and things do come back around.
Matt Rodak:
I like to say that I now think in 10 year increments with business relationships. This wasn't the case when I was younger. I was like, "What can this person do for me today?" And if that was nothing, then it was time to move on. You and I have known each other for 3 1/2 or 4 years now. I don't think we've actually done a deal together.
Matt Faircloth:
No, we have not.
Matt Rodak:
And I'm not worried about it. I know we will.
Matt Faircloth:
We will, and you and I also refer each other to good people. I find that -- and this goes to a lot of folks that are out there -- good people know good people. Whether you do business with them or not. Good people tend to watch other people that are out there, watch other people's actions from afar. I watched people that are playing the short game, and I see them. I see people that are playing the long game, and those that are playing the long game are people that I choose to align with over and over again.
Matt Rodak:
Totally could not agree with you more. That's a crazy story. I hope it works out for you.
Matt Faircloth:
It will, because if you do people like that, you cannot hide out forever. He does have assets. They will get them from him, and if they don't get everything back, it's okay because my investors are still covered. I get to shake it off, which I did after some time. It was a heavy wound to lick, but I did it. My investors are covered, so I get to live another day and raise for another deal without having that scar on me that I lost investors' capital. No, they were recovered. The investors are fine. I'm the one that got punched in the gut there. They didn't.
Matt Rodak:
Live to see another day. That's it, because you can always figure out a way to make that money back over time as long as you're still alive. I appreciate you sharing that.
Matt Rodak:
One of the things I'd love to pick your brain a little bit about is that you wrote this book on raising private capital. Where can people get the book? Is it on Bigger Pockets I'm assuming? Is it on Amazon?
Matt Faircloth:
It is. So, yes and yes. The best place to get it as on biggerpockets.com because we put together a really great bonus package for those that buy it on BiggerPockets, including an 1.5 hour interview with my SEC attorney and a really cool workbook. I wrote another book on buying apartment buildings that they get a copy of as well. You can buy it cheaper on Amazon, but there's more value on BiggerPockets. Either way. Or, they can just go to my website, DeRosaGroup.com, and there is a link to buy the book there as well, which I believe goes to the BiggerPockets version of it with bonuses.
Matt Rodak:
Check out the book, guys. Talk us through what it was like to write a book. I'm super curious. How did you come up with the idea?
Matt Faircloth:
If you ever decided to do it, give me a call first.
Matt Rodak:
What was the process like?
Matt Faircloth:
I'd never dealt with writer's block before, Matt. I've always just been able to do what I want to do when I want to do it. Whether that’s, I'm going to get up and have breakfast, so I will do that. I'm going to call that potential contact. I'm going to do that. I'm going to read an email. But, to sit down and say, okay, I'm going to write a book -- or even write a chapter or a page of my book -- the experience of wanting to do something but then not having the inspiration yet...I had to get used to that feeling. There's a book by Steven Pressfield called -- there's two of them -- one called Going Pro, which is a phenomenal book, and the other one's called, The War of Art, which is a phenomenal book as well. When Steven talks about something called resistance, which is the resistance to creativity, what he talks about in the book and what I experienced in writing, was that you've got to be willing to wait it out. Those that succeed in creating things like a book or like a piece of art are those that are willing to stay in and engage and understand that the writer's block, the resistance the desire to not create, eventually it goes away. There's many times where I've tried to write. I would sit on my desk for half an hour. I was like, "Screw this, nothing's coming out. I'm not writing."
What I found is if I sat on my desk for around 45 minutes, kept trying to do it, kept writing things like, "Oh, this is crap, let me delete this," after around 45 minutes, the true divine inspiration would hit me. Then, you get into the zone. Being in the zone of writing is a beautiful thing because you just kind of lose track of time and you get into it and you start like, "I'm going to talk about this, and I'm going to talk about this! This is great!" Then, before you know it, you've written 10 pages, you realize that half an hour is gone, and it's really cool content. It's way more time consuming than you think it is. It's a fun process. It's not something I enjoyed the entire time. I'll probably do it again, now that I know how to do it, now that I know that I have to wait it out sometimes and it will be there. All in all, it's phenomenal, but nowhere near as easy as I thought it was going to be.
Matt Rodak:
I just look at this and all the words. I stress out about writing emails, so I can't imagine going through this process. I'm sure it's incredibly rewarding once you...
Matt Faircloth:
It's like 80,000 words, that book, Matt. I know because BiggerPockets had a threshold they needed us to get to, word-wise. I'm like, can't we just make the font bigger?
Matt Rodak:
Like college essays.
Matt Faircloth:
Yeah, it's got to be three pages. Well, 24 inch font will do it!
Matt Rodak:
No, it's a great book. Check it out. Matt was kind enough to send it to me pre-publication, so I got an early look and read at it. As someone who's raised, personally and for the company, hundreds of millions of dollars, there's some great nuggets in here. So whether you're just getting started, trying to figure out how to get your first deal funded and off the ground, or whether you're a grizzled, experienced vet, I highly recommend checking out the book. Very cool stuff. Matt, really appreciate you joining us. If anybody listening wants to get ahold of you to learn more about either investing with you or to pick your brain, what's the best place they can find you?
Matt Faircloth:
Sure. DeRosa Group is where they can hear more about what we're up to. They can pick up the book and they can deep dive and check out everything that we're doing as a company.
Matt Rodak:
Awesome, DeRosa Group, Check it out, guys. I'm going to try to summarize some of the salient points that I pulled out of the show. The first thing, if you're raising money the mindset is important. Realize what you have is at least of equal value to the money side of the equation. The other big one is consistency. Investors invest in lines, not dots, so whether it's a YouTube show, or email, or making phone calls on a weekly or monthly basis, build some consistency around your pipeline for capital. Another word I wrote down here that you mentioned is authenticity. I think raising capital -- and I do some teaching here in New York for startups and I like to say raising capital is an incredibly personal thing -- if you're not authentic about it, investors can feel that. You got to be real and what works for some people may not work for you. You've got to find your groove and be authentic with it. Find the types of investors that work for you.
Matt Faircloth:
Dogs and bees are not the only ones that can smell fear. Not just fear, but slime, too, shows up, and it shows up a lot. It's a lot more transparent than you think it is.
Matt Rodak:
It's got to be real. Be real with yourself. I think you guys nailed that with your value prop and your values that you've been living for 8 years. If I had to guess, it's probably core to how you guys go out and raise money. That goes into the last point; put investors first, think long term, have integrity. Short term losses, in my experience, often times turn into long term wins if you play them right.
Matt Faircloth:
I find that if you look at life in the most macroscopic perspective that you can, you can start to see the perfection of life. Even the downturns and the parts we got socked in the gut. If you extrapolate it out enough and look at how that part where you got socked in the gut allows you to look at life differently, causes you to lick your wounds and then recreate yourself, and then do this and do this, that actually things tend to work out if given enough time. They tend to work out for the best if you give enough time.
Matt Rodak:
That's how you grow, through the challenges. Matt, this was awesome. I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Real Estate Investing Unscripted. For those of you that are listening, be sure to check out The DeRosa Group, and get Matt's book. Also, check out Fund That Flip. We've got a lot of good stuff including this podcast and others. Otherwise, I look forward to having you all back listening to the next show. Your host, Matt Rodak, signing off.
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