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We're pulling in experts from both sides of the business for this week's Washington D.C. area-focused Real Estate Investing Unscripted episode!

Antonio Campanelli, a member of our Investor Relations Director team from Philly, and Ryan Studner, a Territory Manager for the Northeast states of Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia, were kind enough to pop by the podcast to talk about the Zonda Q3 Housing Market webinar as it pertains to the D.C. and the surrounding markets. We are taking a deep dive into their region and talking about property types, opportunities in the suburbs surrounding D.C., and the big B word for investors: Baltimore.

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Read! (Full transcript below)

Brendan: Welcome back to another episode of Real Estate Investing Unscripted, where we get real with real estate investors and other industry experts around the world.

I'm your co-host, Brendan Bennett, and with me is your other co-host, David Duggan. David, what are we gonna be talking about today?

David: Howdy. Yeah, we have we've got some good stuff in front of us. So, if our listeners, if you guys recall, several months back, one of the first few podcasts we got up and running when we brought it back was with a an economist. His name was Nick Scoolis. He was from an organization called Zonda.

Zonda has some really cool data that they've shared with us at that time that they continue to share with us and, they're kind of a supportive resource for us. So recently we had sponsored a webinar that Zonda was hosting and it was all about Q3 housing market and kind of where things are headed.

Some really strong data that goes into that that would help builders be informed and, and make certain decisions. And so that's what we're gonna be talking today. And specifically, this is about the DC housing market and kind of up and down the, the eastern seaboard there in that DMV area. And luckily enough for us, we have two gentlemen that really specialize in that area. who both, hold roles, different roles respectively with FTF, but they operate in those markets. So, 

Brendan: Make sure you guys stay tuned. We have an awesome episode coming up with Antonio and Ryan from the DMV and DC markets. They're gonna take you guys to school.

David: Antonio, welcome to the podcast. Tell us about yourself. 

Antonio: Dave, Brendan, thanks for having me. Uh, Antonio Campanelli been with Fund That Flip now for. Going on a few years. interesting transition for myself. I was actually, living in the Washington DC market for five years, so, Knock gonna steal Ryan's th Ryan's thunder. He's our, he's our boots on the ground there, and does a great job on the loan origination side.

But a few years back moved back home to Philadelphia where I headed our loan origination efforts in the mid-Atlantic, Philadelphia, the suburbs Delaware suburbs jersey up in the north jersey as well. So, cut my teeth and handled our loan origination efforts there for, for a couple of years.

Um, and then about a year ago, came on to our investor relations side of the business. as many of our listeners are probably familiar, at this point we have a crowdfunding platform where we have passive investors, both institutional and accredited individuals who invest in our real estate projects that we originate.

so now I'm working day-to-day, hand in hand with accredited investors, helping them onboard with the platform, talking about our many different investment products. so yeah, excited to be here.

David: Awesome, Ryan. Welcome. 

Ryan: Yeah, no, a pleasure to be here. it, it's great talking about the DMV, obviously talking about real estate in general, but, to be able to come and, and, and discuss the, the land near and dear to my heart is is very fun. So looking forward to it. I, I came on actually on the same day as, as Antonio.

He and I joined the company on the same day, so we've got that connection there. And for me, I, I, I started doing our, you know, sales and loan origination in, in the DMV dc, Maryland, Virginia, for those unfamiliar with, with DMV as we're gonna say, a thousand times over the next, little bit.

But, most recently have, Taken that through the Northeast now. so, doing a lot of our origination through, the, the Great Northeast and you know, enjoying that. as part of doing, so we have brought, and, and we'll discuss more, but, but we started to see a lot of opportunity and hired in the Richmond, Virginia area.

and excited about what Central and Southern Virginia is gonna be bringing in for fund that flip.

Brendan: I'd love to hear you guys. Thanks for the the intro really quick. so again, David talked about how on Zondas webinar they talked about all these different market-wide, statistics, and then a lot of stuff specific to the DMV. The one thing that they cited is something that we probably all have noticed.

Housing inventory is down from 2019, right? So I think it's a mix of, you know, covid, repercussions, the interest rate environment that we experienced over 22 and, and early half of 23, and a few other things that we're seeing as well. a stat they threw out was 90% of people are still locked into a 5% or lower mortgage rate, right?

So if you're sitting on a mortgage rate that's sub 5%, it's kind of hard to put your house up on the market and, and go walk into a 6%, 7% rate. So to make this You know, very applicable to what you guys are seeing in your market. How, how is that playing out with the DMV, the Philly markets Antonio, maybe even from a accredited investor or institutional side, how do you guys feel like the housing shortage and decrease of, of supply, but maybe increase in demand a little bit?

How, how's it impacting your guys' respective markets?

Antonio: we've always had a shortage of, of new construction housing in the, in the Philadelphia market. And I think at this point it's just exacerbated by, by what's currently happening. historically an old city, right? Philadelphia, not, not a Bri, not Charlotte, right?

Not new construction, everywhere. but we, we do have a fair amount of new construction. We're seeing more and more urban infill. the suburbs are, really helping alleviate the shortage because there is room to build in the suburbs, both, the Delaware suburbs, New Jersey suburbs, and then the Pennsylvania suburbs.

So I think one common theme here that we see is I. While increased interest rates are reducing demand, there's still a shortage of inventory and it's really a function of, of increased interest rates. And we've seen less, residential construction start over the last eight months. It is starting to catch up.

but I'm certainly seeing that anecdotally throughout Philadelphia. it's, it's a problem that we see throughout the country, but especially in a city where there's not a, a, a ton of room to build in the immediate urban area.

Ryan: Yeah, to bounce off that, you know, it's, it's similar, in the DC area. But what they mentioned you know, what Onda really put into, a, a good graph, is that you're seeing a lot of some of this building going on in the outer markets, where you wouldn't traditionally see condos or town homes being built.

You, you saw more of a single family, you know, even more rural communities, and now you're seeing some different types of housing pop up in those areas to alleviate. that lack of supply.

David: So, so that's interesting and I, I want to dig into that a little bit more. The, first of all, what some of these sub-markets you're talking about, for those that aren't familiar with the DMV, like myself, right? Haven't spent a whole lot of time there. What are these, these other markets and, and kinda like what's the, the geographic scope of that?

How far out from DC are some of these markets or from Baltimore are some of these markets that, I suppose what's the incentive for. Home buyers to move out there. Are these still within striking distance? If they commute to, you know, a bigger city, 

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Um, those unfamiliar we're talking about, not necessarily, you know, Arlington or Alexandria or Montgomery County, but more so. like Frederick County and, and Manasas and, you know, spots that are not 30 minutes out, but perhaps even closer to an hour out. Um, you're seeing areas like Winchester, and uh, and, and the likes in Virginia really start to grow.

And then, you know, to this extent, we're also talking now about Richmond, right? In a big way where there was a lot of movement over covid. From people who left DC and went to Richmond, you're talking about an average home price of five 50 to three 50. Right. And saying, you know, I can get the same, you know, type of life and, and you know, things that you're looking for in great restaurants and, and the like in Richmond.

you know, and I can work perhaps remotely. So, so why do I need to be in the heart of the city? Um, so you saw a lot of that movement. I.

Brendan: Yeah. And something that Zonda really started to, to focus on in the, in the episode as well was the, it kind of flipped upside down from the detached versus attached single family houses, right? So if you go back two, three years ago, even in some of these suburbs, right, where the, the density wasn't extremely high.

You had maybe like 60, 70% of all single-family houses being standard detached, white picket fence houses. And now a lot of those are shifting to condos and town homes. where people are trying to stretch the cost of that land, which is going up a little bit further and try to get a little bit more outta their sale price.

Ryan, from a, from a loan origination standpoint, how has it changed your business and your sales strategy, even, the types of customers that you talked to a year and a half or two years ago who might've said, Hey, Ryan, I got a 300 k fix and flip for you. They might be coming back saying, Hey, I'm gonna build two town homes, or, you know, four condos on this same lot.

So how, how has that changed the way that you 

Ryan: Yeah. You know, we, we see a lot of it not necessarily even just in the DMV, I mean, the conversation today, in New Jersey. should I build this single family or should I throw out these two town homes? you know, the zoning's there. I, but maybe I have to wait six more months, you know, is it worth that whole time?

Right? So people are definitely going through these Decisions and for us, we're just trying to make sure that we can provide a product that works for. Most people's strategies, whether they're gonna go the single family route, whether they're gonna go and knock that thing down, or they're gonna keep up three walls, right?

We just need to make sure that we have the right product market fit for all of those options. So I think, you know, it's really just taking that feedback, seeing what the customers want. So that we can end up trying to make that product make sense for them. That that's really, I think, what we've seen over the last year is, is a lot of people trying to recategorize in their minds what's the best route and, and us trying to react and, and sort of, you know, get the best product out there.

Brendan: And Antonio, same question over to you. How do you think our accredited investors specific to fund that flip, but even outside, right? How are private lenders adapting? Where. You know, they have to underwrite a single family, new construction or single family fix and flip, which is a little bit more straightforward versus some of these a little bit more complex products where you have maybe 2, 3, 4 houses all connected in a shared building. How, what's been the feedback from accredited and institutional investors alike? 

Antonio: those who believe in the space, right? Like those who believe in the asset class, they're still bullish on, on residential projects, and I don't think it necessarily matters to, to the investors per se. Again, I'm working on the working with the passive investors, right?

These are the accredited investors who invest in the platform. I. Or some of our institutional capital partners. I think they're still bullish on residential construction. I don't necessarily think it matters so much to them whether the other homes attached, are they detached? are they condoed out because of the shortage of land and, and the value of how expensive land is, I think it's um, I think it's quite savvy actually of, of, of local developers to.

build additional units where possible. some localities, some cities, some townships allow, a BuyRight conversion of a single family home into, into, into two doors, right? So if they can essentially keep their, their costs fixed as far as land, but uh, increase their outsell by, by building two units, we're not seeing pushback at all from, from investors on, on the platform.

David: about with the location though, an Antonio? Are you feeling any pullback from investors because maybe they're not familiar with some of these submarkets. You know, what the hell is Manassas, Virginia? Richmond D, you know, I know it's the capital, but do people actually live there? Like, do you find any pullback because it's not DC proper or you know, one of the immediate suburbs? 

Antonio: not entirely. I mean, again, I, I think for investors who believe in the asset class they're, they're looking at the values, the ratios that does this, does this pencil out? Right? What are the economics here? and then I. Uh, I will say some of them are a little geospecific, right? Like there are some investors who their investment thesis supports investing.

you know, they'll consider a few factors, right? first and foremost, they're looking for, areas where there are still jobs and, and strong job growth. Um, and strong demand. And I would argue that the DMV is as recession proof as. Probably any market in the US being that you have the, of course the federal government, right?

But then, all the private industry that, that supports the federal government. Um, we're talking defense contracting work. We're talking consulting work. Um, so not a huge drop off from investors.

David: So that's a nice dovetail into where I want to go, which is, the area in general, right. The DMV, but specifically the, the B word, right. Baltimore. Right. And I, when we, when we interviewed Nick, That was maybe November, December of last year. Right. And there was a lot of pullback from investors in the asset class.

There was a lot of uncertainty. And you know, we found specifically with, with our investors that they, they didn't have a big appetite for, you know, Baltimore specifically and some other geos around the country. And his argument back was like, Hey, it's one of the most recession proof markets in the country due to the government presence there.

And government's not going away. There's always gonna be job opportunities there. Tell me about your insights there, Antonio, like how operating in your world, what do you hear, what do you see from investors when you talk about Baltimore specifically or other areas in the DMV? Are they as bullish or are they still feeling some of that, some of those nerves around investing in those markets? 

Antonio: I won't sugarcoat it. there are some investors who are a little, a bit more bearish. Um, Around Baltimore. but I think it's, it, it's really up, up to us to find great projects and find great developers to partner with. part of our, our unique, structure as a company being that we're, a direct originator for those who don't know, we are, we, and I'm sure you y'all bring it up from time to time on on the podcast, but we're proud that we, we originate our own loans in-house, right?

So we have the ability to, to, to work with underwriting, get feedback from capital markets and, put together a loan that works for the developers but also. hedge, a little bit of downside of hedge with a little bit with risk mitigation. So there's been a little bit of uncertainty, a little bit of pushback from capital markets, to invest in, in certain areas.

Um, Baltimore being one of them. But, Ryan could probably, fill an hour and a half on this podcast alone of why he's still bullish on Baltimore. Why, why we still believe, in Our specific product that, that we're originating there. and two, I mean, a lot of great sub-markets between Baltimore and, and.

Washington d c that sprawls past what was traditionally hot in that Montgomery County, that, Bethesda, that Silver Spring area. we're seeing a lot of development up the two 70 corridor into the Frederick. So, Baltimore is just, you know, one city in the DMV. Um, but I think that there's a lot of strong market fundamentals, for, for Baltimore as well.

And it's really up, up to us to educate our investors. Um, and explain why we, why we believe in this area, and then pick and choose, strong developers to partner with in, in those areas.

Ryan: that's sort of what we always discuss internally, right? 'cause we've gotta make sure that what we're doing makes sense, not just for that borrower, but for our capital markets team and, and making sure that everything. works for, for you and you guys can, can dispose those loans to the right spot.

So what, what do we look for? We look for people who are paying their bills. We look for people who are doing good projects, turn them quickly, right? I think we found that we have great operators in that area who really know what they're doing, have, have a good product, and even more so have a secondary exit strategy of when these things necessarily don't work.

The rents there are fantastic. There are very few large metro areas on the I 95 corridor where you can be all in at a property for 140 and rent it for 1500. You know, it's, it is just, not that common. And then, like you said, you've got Under Armour, you've got, you know, a lot of strong employers in and around the area.

Johns Hopkins obviously. So it, there's a lot good going there that, that makes, I know we've talked about midterm rentals on the pod as well. lot of good travel nurse going through the, the John Hopkins area, so we have a lot of operators who, who take advantage of that. Um, but even more so as, as Zonda pointed out, there are year over year appreciation five markets in the DMV that that hit the top 10.

Richmond was number two right after Miami, which makes a ton of sense. Philly came right after that. but then in the number five position, it is Baltimore, right? So you've got the number five, market in the country, year over year appreciation, the statistics are, are good. Our internal statistics on the, region are good. So I think it's, you know, easy to, see one show 20 years ago and grab an idea of what the place is. But, it seems to be a, a strong real estate market.

Brendan: from a investing standpoint and capital market standpoint, they might be a little bit less enthusiastic about. The Northeast in general, right.

Relative to the Carolinas or the Southeast. Or the Midwest. so Antonio, question to you a little bit more. So I guess, what do you think it would take, to get that sentiment from investors passively to see the opportunity that our customer base sees? 

Antonio: I'll probably zoom out here a little bit and just, just talk big picture. I much like Ryan. Believe in Baltimore long term. I'm, I'm bullish on the market. Um, I love the city. I visited a lot. I think there are a lot of reasons why in proximity to DC I think is, is one massive reason, but just affordability relative to DC is, is just one thing that we haven't even discussed.

Right? Like, okay, higher interest rates, are you priced out of dc? is Baltimore a 45 minute car ride? Is there a train that runs back and forth? Is it, can you work from home a few days a week and commute? Are there a lot of reasons why you'd wanna live in Baltimore? on the water? Yeah, definitely. So, from, from a fundamental standpoint, like I'm also bullish on Baltimore.

If we zoom out from a macroeconomic standpoint, I think we're seeing the right data From an inflation standpoint. I think inflation's coming down, We're, we're hopeful that the, the Fed feels like we have inflation under control, and that in due time we will ease on, on interest rates. So inflation is decreasing.

Um, in theory then the Fed who was targeting a soft landing and I think a lot of economists and, and those in the industry feel like what the Fed has tried to accomplish is being accomplished. And, a lot of folks, are, are happy with, with the, the inflation data and hopeful, we're hopeful that interest rates will, will drop and we, we have a soft landing and as a result, there are a lot of folks on the sidelines who are just.

a little curious. We're taking a pause because we are in what we, what we often call a period of uncertainty. but I think we're seeing a lot of data points trending in the right direction. And, I believe that if those trends continue in that direction, the general investor sentiment, having to do with, Baltimore will as, as an example, or really all markets will continue to increase.

Brendan: Ryan, from your perspective being on the, on the other side, from from the customer base, what are, are your borrowers in those markets? And again, not to pick on Baltimore specifically, but just anywhere DMV based, are those borrowers aware of some of the like macroeconomic. perceptions of that area, and again, Zander's webinar did a great job of kind of dispelling maybe some of those myths and showing a lot of really positive data points of all the redeeming factor of these markets.

What take me inside the mind of, a developer or a real estate investor in one of those markets? How are they viewing it? 

Ryan: I spoke with one today on, on this exact subject, and, and his thoughts were, I hope they keep thinking it. Stay outta here. Let, let, let us keep taking all these things and, and and, and I hope that, you know, the, the institutional dollars don't, don't come and, and swallow up all this stuff. We're, we're happy to keep it.

So, you know that that sort of, sort of joking, sort of not right, is like, of course it, it'd be nice if there was, cheap dollars flowing through your city at all times. Every single, you know, lender ready to drop the Brinks truck. Anywhere you want. but I, I think there is also a general understanding of, why all things are a certain way.

Um, there are certain parts of certain cities where everyone, you know, is, is a little bit, more reticent to, to give dollars towards. But you're seeing a lot of investors, Like we said, we only wanna work with the best of 'em so they know where they can do projects and move them and rent them and get good Section eight tenants. they've adjusted properly and uh, makes sense.

David: One of the things as I continue to look through the The slide decks here. I'm looking at this slide. Where's talking about Virginia and Maryland being two distinct markets? Now, me, I'm an Ohioan, right? So I think of the DMV. It's like it's all one place, right? There's a river that separates 'em.

It's the same thing, right? I think a comparable in, in Ohio would be like Cincinnati, right? You've got Cincinnati and then you've got across the river that's Kentucky, and those are actually two distinct markets. Zanda saying the same thing about Virginia and Maryland. So Ryan, from your perspective, right, when you're working with builders or developers, do you find that they have a preference on one of the other?

Are there some, some people that say, Hey, I stick to just Maryland, or I'm, I'm south of the river I stick to, to just Virginia? Or 

Ryan: Oh no, a hundred percent they, it, that river might as well be a, a real border, like a real country border. passports and all. It's, it's it's very, I mean, like, People won't date across, you know, like, no, they live, they live in another country type thing. Um, it, it's, you'll find builders who are focused just in Northern Virginia, just in Virginia, just in Maryland.

Oh, I don't go into dc, again, this could be with perception, with perception of, you know, D C R A versus. how PG county's gonna treat you versus right. So, there, I think a lot of people just find their niche feel comfortable. Um, but again, this also goes back to what type of projects you're looking to do, right?

So you have builders who specialize in the condo conversion. They're gonna go to DC right? They, they have a good idea for taking one and turning it into four units. whereas some people just say, Hey, Shout out, like classic cottages. We think they do a great job in, in Northern Virginia. they're gonna find a piece of property, knock that thing down, build you a beautiful home, and throw it right next to where Amazon's doing, you know, HQ two and sold. definitely see, people choosing their specific niches and areas and not crossing that river. I.

Antonio: Yeah, if I can, if I can dovetail off that it's, it's funny that Brian talks about builder strategies or, building thesises. whereas, we see the exact same thing on the investment side, right? Like think of, the building and, funds that, that invest in the, in the project relative to the actual building.

And just, just as builders have their specific areas, investors also have specific types of products, right? Like some investors are super bullish on new construction. Um, some like cosmetic rehabs because they see that as another risk mitigation tool, right? Like how, how, how much can go wrong if, if you're buying the house at a, at a great price and you know, paint carpets, windows and, and re-listed.

It's, not as risky as a, as a, as, you know, a full gut rehab or a new construction. So, Just as builders have their specific on building thesises or on building strategies, we see that on the investing side as well. Those who, find a, a, a, like a subset of an asset class that they believe in, double down, get very, very familiar with that asset class, and then, you know, are able to be flexible enough to, to pivot when necessary.

Brendan: Ryan, one last question. More, more geared towards the, the borrower base. So, you know, Zana talked about the attach versus detach home, which I think is interesting that like we hit on, they also talked about how, because of the rising interest rate environment, the number of home resale, so houses built, you know, 20, 30, 50, a hundred years ago.

Is really down. And for the first time in probably the last like 10 years, you're seeing new construction spec homes starting to eat up a huge percentage of the total houses currently on the market. So for someone who's maybe isn't really close to real estate, you might say, Hey, it's a great time to become a builder, right?

Because those spec homes are now eating up market share, you can maybe demand a higher price point because all the new, new, fixtures and different features that those properties offer. Do you actually see in, in reality some of these people that are doing cosmetic or full gut rehabs, transcending into the new builder space, or do you still see much like the, the river we spoke about earlier, do you see that dividing line between the, the fix and flip person from getting into the new construction space where there appears to be a pretty good opportunity right now? 

Ryan: Yeah. You know, I think, people are sticking to the rivers that they're used to, if you will. couldn't help it. Sorry. but, honestly, I think Zonda hit it. Um, they talked about the percentage of, market share that some of these builders have. Uh, N V R taken up a a 22% clip. I, I think it was, which is.

Pretty heavy. pretty much everyone else in that, like seven to 9%, somewhere in there. So, I think you have builders who have that market know what they're doing, but they're just picking further out markets to do that now. taking some of, going from doing so in, you know, 30 to 45 minutes outside of the city and doing so an hour, an hour, 15 outside the city.

but I, I think you also have, A lot of builders who were doing the new construction and also are, are finding some of their opportunity in, in some of the fix and flip. So, you know, your question was some of, or some of the fix and flip going to the new construction. I, I think you're actually seeing some of the opposite or we have at least.

Brendan: Very interesting. so guys, we're gonna try a, a new segment on the show. So you guys are gonna be our Guinea pigs for this, so we're gonna do. Uh, a bit of a Speed Round and this is sponsored by the Michalek Brothers Racing. It's a NHRA Champion Drag Racing team. Ryan's got the shirt on we just had the race over the weekend.

So what we're gonna do is za to touch specifically on a couple DC suburbs, and from both you, Ryan and Antonio, I wanna give you like 30 seconds each to discuss passive for Antonio or active for Ryan, what the opportunity each of these markets would be. So, without a preview, just gonna give you guys.

The name of the, the suburb, Antonio and Ryan. Hope you guys are well versed. We'll see how this goes. 30 seconds. Give your perspective, passive or active. So the first one up, we're gonna go, Ryan taught me how to say this correctly. Norfolk,

Ryan: Well done. Well done. Um, yeah, from an active perspective, we, we love the area. You've got a large, military community there. Uh, you have the Navy. I. You have the Coast Guard, you, you have a lot of good rental and, also affordable projects there. So, they call it the Seven Cities around there, Norfolk, Suffolk, hemp City, Virginia Beach, a few others. And look, it's, we, we find it a great area to be because you're always gonna have that inflow and of new people and, and a nice, steady base of renters.

Brendan: Antonio, what you got?

Antonio: Not as well versed on the Ner nor Norfolk area. Um, I. not, but I mean, again, we're, we're looking for a good paying job. Investors are looking for good paying jobs. They're, they're looking for steady population or, population growth. they're looking for affordability, and they're looking for a shortage of housings. if a metro, such a Norfolk checks the majority, if not all those boxes, you're gonna see, general sediment being positive, specifically 

Brendan: I love it. All right. Market number two. Richmond. 

Ryan: All right. Richmond, I mean, could not be more bullish on it. We think it's got everything, that our company looks for. You've got really, really good borrowers. People who know their market have great, buys, have good opportunities for those purchases. you've got a lot of great contractors and, you've got V C U, university of Richmond.

You've got the hospital, you've got all sorts of things that go for Richmond. And it's obviously two hours to dc, two hours to Virginia Beach, two hours to, you know, even Virginia Tech. Like, you've just, you've got a lot going for the area and, and couldn't be more excited about it.

Antonio: Yeah. I mean, investors are often looking for the same things that developers are looking for, right? Like, we're looking for reasons to wanna invest in something, and whether you're actively invest in building or passively investing, you're looking for a lot, much of the same, right? So, Ryan's already touched on colleges, he healthcare, being centrally located, right?

Not being too far from, from Washington d c in that large, large metro area. but also too, like we've often talked about a shortage of, of land, right? And we love these secondary and these tertiary markets for, for these reasons specifically. is there, you know, a little bit more land right outside of Richmond or right outside of Washington DC right outside of Richmond, right? So much, much of the same.

Brendan: third and final, we talked about this a little bit already, so, maybe state the most underestimated, underappreciated quality of Baltimore.

Ryan: I think you're just, I gotta go back to the cash flow of these rental properties, right? I mean, it's just very affordable. Um, you can still grab affordable property and they aren't in horrible sh I mean, some of them are, you know, obviously, but for the most part, you can grab a property where you can do a nice 25 35 K renovation.

Be all in, you know, under one 50 and, and get 1500 and above on your rent. So it just checks out from a numbers perspective.

Antonio: The two that came to mind most quickly. Um, jobs, a decent job drop market, just being that healthcare isn't going anywhere and Johns Hopkins supports so many, so many of the folks in that area. then just being an example. Um, and then often something that I think isn't, isn't talked about enough, and that I think will.

We'll talk about more and more in the future as remote work becomes more permanent for a lot of folks and as, once folks start to feel like they can move. Baltimore is, is perfectly positioned between two much more expensive markets, right? It's sandwiched perfectly between Philadelphia, which is marginally more expensive, not, not a ton more expensive but more specifically and more importantly, the proximity to Washington d c.

Um, so I think jobs and, and proximity to larger, more expensive markets are, two, Two reasons that investors feel comfortable investing in that market specifically.

Ryan: And crab cakes and football.

Antonio: That's what Maryland does. right? 

David: That's what Maryland does, Yep. Well done gents. First, participants in the speed round. I think you guys crushed it. I think you guys sold your DMV markets. Well, double B, what else we got? 

Brendan: I think that about wraps it up. I, I appreciate you guys coming on and sharing some of your boots on the ground experience and you know, history of of the DMV areas and, and some of the other markets that Zda covered in their webinar. I think I. Seeing data and, and macroeconomics on, on a sheet is one thing.

Seeing it come to life with real life experience with both you, Ryan and Antonio, I think it gives a lot more substance behind what we're seeing. so I appreciate you guys coming on and, and sharing some of those stories with us. 

Ryan: Absolutely glad to be here. 

Antonio: For having us

Brendan: You got it.

David: All right boys. Thanks for coming on. 

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