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If you are always thinking about how to get ahead in your retirement planning, this episode is for you. 👍🎧
We brought on friend of the show Amanda Holbrook, Certified Self-Directed IRA Professional with Specialized Trust Company, to spell out her do's and don'ts of the SDIRA space and tapping into that money to up your real estate investing game.
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Brendan: Welcome back to another episode of real estate investing unscripted, where we get real with real estate investors and experts throughout the industry.
I'm your cohost, Brendan Bennett. And with me is your other cohost David Dugan and David, we have a fantastic guest today, Amanda Holbrook, and she's going to teach us. A ton of different stuff on the passive investing side and a bunch of stuff that, uh, I don't even know how to ask the question yet because she's going to educate us on all of
David: Yes, and, uh, and before we, we give the floor to Amanda for her own introduction, so quick story time, Amanda and I, we actually worked at the, the same place, not at the same time. So she was kind of leaving as I was coming in and I had all of the, always heard these, these legends of Amanda Holbrook, like the most badass sales gal in the company and all these cool.
Stories of her just being just aggressive and calling shots and being awesome. Right. And so, you know, years and years later, uh, after we had a both already left the company and you know, we're, we're both doing something different. Um, at least with different companies, I ran into her at a, a real estate trade show and I saw her name tag.
I was like, I know you. And she's like, who the hell are you? And I was like, I, I used to work at that place that you used to work at. And she's like, Oh yeah. And uh, and so I told her all these funny stories that, um, that I had learned about her over the years of, of being, uh, at, at said institution. so after that we had kind of linked up for coffee and turns out she knows.
Everybody and everybody in the real estate space. So I've tried to, uh, you know, refer some business over to her and we've reciprocated some of that stuff. But, uh, but yeah, she already knows everybody and knows everything and is a wealth of knowledge. So Amanda, so happy to have you on welcome to the show.
Amanda: Well, thank you. I love that warm introduction and I am like biting my lip trying not to laugh while you're talking. I don't remember. The myth, the legend, the self directed IRA lady, Amanda.
David: Well, I mean, if people are listening to the podcast and they heard your name, they're probably already like, yeah, I know that lady. why don't you go ahead and give us your own intro and, uh, fill in the gaps that I may have missed.
Amanda: Well, thank you all for tuning in and I appreciate the warm intro, guys. Everybody here, I'm Amanda Holbrook with Specialized Trust Company. I do all things self directed IRAs, 401ks, HSAs, the whole shebang. And anything that is related to any types of retirement accounts, that is my wheelhouse, you know. So I've been in the industry for like 14 years and I'm still going strong.
So going on 15 years, I'm like aging myself, but yeah, it's, it's fun. It's creative. It's never the same day twice. You know, it's always a different creative problem. That we're solving, you know, so I love what I do. And I think that, that, that definitely comes across. not just for myself, but for the team.
So, yeah, that's who I am. And we're gonna knock some good nuggets out today.
Brendan: I love it. Thanks for the intro, Amanda. Uh, quick question before we get into some of the more nitty gritty stuff on the, uh, self directed space. How did you get into self direction and just real estate in general? I think there's a founding story for you, uh, back when you were
Amanda: oh, going back to that fun year. We all loved our 21st. Um, yeah, so I get this question a lot. Because what we do, you guys, I mean, let's just be real, it's a freaking niche. Right. I mean, not, I mean, I talked to advisors and attorneys and I still get the, you can't do that in an IRA. Yes, you can. It's been around since the 70s.
This is not freaking new, but how I stumbled into it, you know, just like most of you guys, you know, how did you get into real estate? He just did a freaking deal, right? You know, so here I am, 21 years old, and I'm really gonna date myself here. But I went and I bought a hut home and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like buying a house on ebay I mean how many of you can relate to that? So Fumbled through total naive like didn't know what I was doing. Um, but that was the bug that bit me You know was was the real estate bug so Um got into that, you know, i'm i'm a nerd through and through i'll give that part in the disclaimer But for those of you that know me know i'm a nerd through and through i'm just a fun nerd so I learned everything there was on the real estate side, you know picked up a license.
I learned the mortgage lending side and that's where I got into the money side, um, before the crash, so I kind of saw that writing coming on the wall and said, well, there's got to be some type of investment vehicle that's going to bridge this gap. Private money lending. Where can you lend private money?
Where's the money come from? Retirement accounts. So. Here we go. So I went to that one institution David mentioned earlier and Just became a nerded out expert and if you could imagine I know those of you that can't see me I'm a whopping like five foot one with big old baby cheeks if you can imagine my 20 something year old self Standing on stage talking about tax free profits and wealth I erase You know, I like already started with one foot in the hole Um, you know, so being an expert in my field, not only to help our clients, but my own credibility, was paramount, you know, so here we are, with Specialized Trust.
David: You took, uh, an opposite path it seems like for most of the people we chat with and in fact we, uh, we just had a previous episode with a, uh, With a CPA and, uh, we had discussed how most people kind of generalize, but most people start in a real estate centric job, right? Whether you become a real estate agent or if you work in a, a real estate service like the self directed IRA world or what Brendan and I do with, with Upright.
Uh, and then you kind of immerse yourself in that culture and then you're like, Well, damn, I want to start doing some deals. Cause I'm watching these other people. You do it the opposite way. You're like, I'm just going to do a deal. And then you're like, Oh, this is kind of cool. I'm going to figure out a way to go get a w two. That kind of allows me to learn more. That's interesting. Uh, I learned something else about
Amanda: Yeah, born and raised by entrepreneurs, so always saw, you know, the multiple streams, but still went the Fortune 500 route, um, but yeah, I mean, well, you guys know this, you know, your typical client and investor that you're working with, and for those of you that raise private money out there, I'm going to paint an avatar for you, you're either a, doing very well in W 2 world, but you're trying to get those side hustle streams of income so that you can what?
Get the heck out of W 2 world, right? That's usually somewhere in the gold mix or just supplement the income for the family. Or, You know number two You're you are a full time entrepreneur. You're an investor. I mean what we're going to talk about today guys Let's just invest in what you know, you know, so when we're talking private lending and real estate, this real estate Let's just break it down.
It is one of the three basic needs of every human being on the planet, correct? Look around yourself.
David: Food, food, water,
Amanda: I bet you, unless you're in a car, you're seeing four walls, a ceiling, and a floor. Oh, Oh, that's real estate too. So, I mean, it's not a far cry. It's not like you need to go and get a doctorate, you know, to be able to do this stuff.
And I think that's one of our big, ninja skills, if you will. It's just breaking it down so simple that a child can do it. That's, that's the key. For any business.
Brendan: So Amanda, my first, my first question there is I don't have nearly the background on the self directed spaces, you and David. So I'm kind of starting from ground zero. My question would be like, when you're talking to someone, You guys might be able to apply to a ton of different personas and customer types that like fit your guys's need.
Can you give us the most like basic boilerplate persona of like This person's around this age, this stage of life has this much in a, in a 401k. Like who, who's that typical, most prototypical customer for you?
Amanda: Yeah, so I'll piggyback on like the two avatars that I just gave you in a little bit more depth. because when most think retirement accounts are like, oh, so you work with, you know, people are closer to retirement, you know, that have a big balance, you know, that you have to have six figures in an account to self direct, you know, which isn't true.
Your average 35 year old, and this is a cool little stat, they've changed jobs three times. and have an average of 150k in their retirement accounts. So every time they change a job, there's a 401k you can self direct, right? You know, so I don't even like putting an age parameter, because one of the big things I educate on is like how kids can have Roth IRAs.
I think like, for our children's age group, that's going to be paramount to their own financial success. but the avatar, you know, usually a, a dual income or, you know, at least a six figure typical household income, you know, married or not, there's no category, you know, blue collar, white collar, it is all the same.
that would be more of like the folks that are in the W 2 world. I can get more specific on their certain industries. You know, like, sales folks in pharma, mean, we're, we're all in and around Cleveland, so we see a ton of, like, medical, anything in those niches, chiros, dental, ophthalmologists, you know, they're all, investing those old retirement accounts, even down to, those that are a bit more hands on.
You can't, you can't be in this industry and not. you know, so if that's a bit of a, of an avatar, all the way to the fully self employed. Because, finish my sentence, it's not about what you make, it's what you, well, it's what you keep.
Brendan: Oh, we're going to edit that one
Amanda: Yeah, we're gonna throw it out. We'll try that again. It's not about what you make, it's what you,
Brendan: It's what you keep
Amanda: sorry. Yeah, well, it's, it's what you keep, right? It's what you take home,
David: you're back on the panel at the trade show today. You're quizzing the audience. I like, I like what you're doing.
Amanda: we need yeah, I do interaction all the time
David: I love it.
Amanda: stay on the toes
But yeah, you know those would be for those of you that are listening that are entrepreneurs and looking for capital You know from the retirement account world, Listen closely because those will be plugged into you know, different social media platforms and algorithms that you might be targeting
David: I always thought, when I look at my time in the self directed IRA space to what I do now, which is, you know, on the loan origination side, and people ask me about this all the time. Like, are you working with the same type of people? Are you working with the same clients? And it's kind of a mixed bag, right? My immediate answer is like, actually, it's a different, different client base, but it doesn't have to be, right? I always found when I was doing the self directed IRA stuff, it was, Professionals, right? Airline pilots, doctors, lawyers, high net worth individuals that wanted to diversify their portfolio.
those, those always made a lot of sense, right? Um, but there was also the segment of people that, you know, found out about the strategy and they would, you know, put 5, [00:11:20] 000 in a Roth IRA and they would start wholesaling with it and find out, create some creative strategies. and my client base now is much more, you know, they're, they're.
Short term thinkers, right? And so, you know, they're thinking about like, how do I scale my business right now to benefit myself personally, put food on the table for the family, get bills paid, right, and grow that business? Retirement planning, hey, that's for, for down the road. What do you say to that segment of people, Amanda?
Because I know, like, that is, that's your segment that you do well with,
Amanda: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll hear that from, you know, because back to, to your point, you guys, like how much does it, how much do you have to have to start self directing?a thousand dollars is your minimum for an account just to kind of like break that, facade if you will. You know, so for those folks that are getting out there, and especially like my, I always say, and I love you all, as I say this, my 20 something wholesalers that are just on, they're like, ah, retirement.
They're more the instant gratification. Like, how, you know, how can I make some money today? Da da da. that retirement's down the road. They don't wanna hear anything about delayed gratification. You guys, it's a teeter-totter. We're not all doing this for like that glorious day that we all turn 59 and a half It's playing the game like you said you had a cpa on before here it isn't what about you that you make it's what you keep, and leveraging other people's money and leveraging just like with what you guys do as far as Leveraging on the outside and the inside it's the same thing in the ira world, It's not about what you make it's what you keep But it's being proactive versus reactive, and that's the key.
I think with a lot of folks, they think like, oh, it's just the tax planning piece of it. No, if you're crushing it, and you have, all you guys are real estate investors, right? You've got deal flow. That means you have opportunities on your desk daily that you need to ask yourself. And this is what I tell those folks, David, is where do you want the money?
Do you need cash flow today, or do you want to pay your future self? And if you make the cash flow today, are you going to put yourself in a tax pickle? So then they can decide With confidence. Hey, i'm going to do this in the name of my Roth I'm going to do this in the name of my 401k because I don't need that cash flow today Maybe i'm set and if I do make more, you know, i'm going to get into it with Uncle Sam And I don't really want to so it's just it's strategic.
That's all it is. It's strategy, strategy, strategy. So what I say to those ones with like the fixed mindset right there. I just crack it over the head.
David: Uh huh. Well, and, and I always thought, you know, that when you think about taxes, right? Like, are they more likely to go up down the road or, kind of stay flat or go down? Like, I, I assume taxes are going to continue to go up, right? So, so why not use something like a Roth IRA where you can eliminate those taxes and enjoy all those tax free gains and the compounding interest?
20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, right? Cause compounding interest over that period of time looks pretty damn good. Right. I'm sure you teach a ton of that and how compounding interest works, but like that's, that's how I've always thought of it in my head is to your point, making sure there's balance there, pay yourself down the road, but like, damn, don't give uncle Sam all that money.Don't just don't do
Amanda: Don't don't let your silent partner win, and that that's exactly it. Don't let that silent partner win meaning Uncle Scam. Um,
Brendan: Hm.
Amanda: but, for those of you that are half listening right now, twofold, you know, the, the Roth, just so that you guys are listening, a Roth IRA or the Roth part of a 401k, you put the money in, you pay Uncle Sam on the seed and not the crop.
So it grows, and I want you guys to say it just like this. It's cheesy, but tax free! Because when you say tax free, just like that, y'all are smiling. Just like you're smiling right now, right? Who doesn't like tax free? and for those guys that do like the instant gratification, and this I'll kind of toss back to your CPA folks, is there is a way you can access these funds before 59 and a half.
It's called a 72T. Again, that's more tax strategy. but, oh, you know what I didn't do guys? I didn't tell you the fun disclaimer of what we do at Specialized Trust. You ready for this? Listen up.
David: Let it, let it rip.
Amanda: all love legal. We got to do this. Trust Company is a passive custodian. We won't recommend or endorse, make, sell, give, invest, or invest, sponsor, or not, or trade, sign on, ask, CPA, spell for tax advice, legal advice, or passive custodians for infotainment purposes only.
Boom.
Brendan: Might have been like seven seconds. That was, that was quick.
David: That was good.
Brendan: Amanda, I want to, I want to try to give you like a hypothetical scenario. Um, maybe selfishly, but this, this may or may not apply to someone we know or someone on this podcast. So let's say. Okay. Okay. That we have someone who wants to flip more houses in the Cleveland area, right?
And they know how to run an operation. They, they know how to find properties. They know how to execute construction. They're, they're limited by cash, right? They've gone to David Dugan that upright, they've gotten a hard money loan. They're still needing some of that money for down payments for our loan, for also the floating of materials and labor throughout construction.
So if someone like that walked into your office and said, Hey Amanda, how would you recommend leveraging some sort of self direction, whether it's mine or someone in my circle of influence that I know, what kind of advice would you give that individual? And. What direction would you
Amanda: Yeah, so in the direction I steer them in is, let people know what you are doing And ask for the money, so and when it comes to the retirement account because this kind of overlaps I mean in just to raising private money in general, But just so you guys know before I go on to make this statement There's like over 37 trillion dollars in retirement accounts and yes with a t trillion So there's a lot of money out there, but majority of folks don't know that they can tap into it You know, so for that operator, one, we always start personally, all right?
You have old 401ks, et cetera. One of the best tools, we roll that over into a Roth Solo 401k. And guess what? 401ks, you have a restriction free loan of 50 percent or 50, 000, whichever's first. Just like everybody here arbitrages lines of credit. it's that's just like arbitraging your 401k that restriction free loan Anything you invest with that that cash flow goes right back to your pocket, you know So that's you pay yourself back with interest guys.
So that's always where we start because that's like zero cost of capital, you know Next you start with your sphere of influence, you know, your friends your family your social media presence, etc And get the word out there And a real easy one, and I'll throw that out there for anyone that's listening, I'm sure we all use social media in some way, shape or form.
Ask your people, hey, are you happy with what your retirement account is doing? Question mark. What kind of response do you think that's going to get? Yeah, you know, nobody out here is going to say, Oh, I'm happy and seeing rainbows and butterflies. No, everyone that responds to that is ticked off. And why are they ticked off?
Because their lack of control and the performance, you know, the ups and downs, the rollercoaster. They want consistent, predictable results. You can get that in a self directed account with private money lending as an example. the other thing that I do, and David, you mentioned this earlier. how I really bring a value add to those operators, Brendan, is, I don't expect them to go and have this technical type of conversation.
So how do we get the word out? You know, because I just gave that funny disclaimer and part of it that I said really fast is we can't recommend or endorse specific investments or investment sponsors, but it's you don't know what you don't know. So could we do something like this and co educate together?
Absolutely. I'm more than happy to do so. On Zoom meetings, podcasts, events, etc. And that's really how we grow, and how we've grown our company, but how we grow this message organically. cause it's, you don't know what you don't know. So put yourself in the room, make that connection.
But you're the steward of that message. If you want more money, you know, you gotta ask for it, right? Just like someone bringing you a deal and not giving you all of the pieces of the deal. So you don't know how much, how do you know how much money that they need? Same thing.
Brendan: Yeah.
David: Amanda, I've always thought one of the unique things about the self directed IRA world is, is you have to educate people on, on kind of a, a multi level. playing field, right? That it's kind of twofold. You've got to know what the hell you're talking about with your actual product, a self directed IRA.
You've got to understand the tax code behind it. You've got to understand all the bells and whistles and the type of accounts. But, but all that is, is kind of useless if you can't educate the people on what they can do with it. Right. So you kind of have to understand some of those non traditional assets and non traditional investments, which is primarily real estate related.
Right. And so, Talk about that. Right. Talk about how you've been able to leverage both sides and, and help educate people and ultimately like why people should talk to you when they need a self-directed IRA
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I have a funny anecdote for that and you've known this because you've been in the industry. there's a lot of if I say the word gurus out there. Everybody knows what I'm talking about, right? You know, I consider all of us gurus Meaning we actually practice what we preach, you don't learn all of the facets of how to use self directed accounts in Rental properties in flipping private money lending leverage etc.
by reading a book You know, it's not the revenue code you guys the IRS code is written of no, no, no, no No, it doesn't say here are all the ways you can take advantage of our beautiful system You know, you have to learn that so that's one of the big things that Differentiates not only myself, but our team is when working with clients We don't just look at that one deal that you're maybe wanting to do or that one account.
We look at the big picture. What do you do? What does your family do? What are you doing for your kids? Are you using this to scale your business? Are you trying to pay less taxes? Because there are some instant gratification tools. It's just being in the right type of vehicle. Are you getting into something with leverage?
Are you not getting into something with leverage? Because you guys, you can leverage retirement accounts. You know, it has to be non recourse, but that's the rule, you know, so that's
having that very open minded consultative attitude And just being straight with people and not saying oh you need all of this right now, Just showing them here's where you're at now.
This is where you will be, and this is how we grow with you I think those are the big Differentiators too and how to get those accounts to work together Like, you know, you have young kids. How old are your littles?
David: Four and two.
Amanda: Okay, so you can only do 6, 500 a year in a Roth. You've got to pay them, you know, from your company.
So they have earned income, heartbeat, social security number, but can you do a private lending deal in your kid's Roth? I mean most people are borrowing more than 6, 500. So how do you get that working? You know, this is a, this is a great one guys. And how would you get that working if you've got 6, 500 in one account and some in another? Partner, right? It's the same creative deal structure all you real estate investors are using already. The beauty of the partnership, the beauty of the JV, it's, you can do the same with self directed retirement accounts. So I think breaking it down that simple and getting folks to think of it in that way, you're literally just mirroring what you're doing in the taxable world in the non taxable world.
David: And, and if I could chime in on that real quick, because what you are saying. is an incredibly powerful tool that not enough people know about. Even the people, like myself, that had worked in the self directed IRA world, we wouldn't coach it or educate it because it was complicated, right? We didn't really have a good system to do it, right?
And like, there's this, you know, uh, you know, the word UBIT, right? Unrelated Business Income Tax gets thrown around. Like, oh, oh my god, like, I'm gonna get taxed out the ass, I'm gonna get audited, and I'm gonna lose all my retirement plans, and like, this is terrifying. And then I sit down with Amanda, you know, years later, and she's telling me how, like she structured it and they do it.
And I'm like, well, that just makes so much sense. And that is a ton easier than I had, you know, complicated it when I had worked in that self directed IRA world. so I think it all goes back to like, know who you're working with and work with somebody that knows what that, what the hell they're doing.
Uh, they can kind of educate you through some of those complicated strategies. Cause it can be intimidating. Just like. If somebody asked me to fly an airline right now, like probably wouldn't go too well, but I'm not a professional, right?
Amanda: It's just, you break it down, right? just, break it down, and keep it simple. It's just like when you start real estate investing and someone tells you, Oh, go open up a company and scale this portfolio from two houses to 20 in five years. You're like, Oh, how do I do that? That's such a huge mountain to climb.
You know, it's just one piece, you know, one piece at a time, you know, and to your point, it's, you look at this as your business, right? Right? Your team. You know, you want the right butts in the right seats. I would never ask any, like anyone that's using self directed IRAs to raise private capital, you know, to fund their deals, et cetera.
I'm never going to ask you to have any of the technical part of the conversation. That's all me. All I want you to talk about is say, Hey, you know what? We earn folks double digit returns in their retirement accounts. Great. How do you do that? I want you to talk about you, and your business, and why they should work with you.
And then, just do an email introduction, or hey, you know what, call my gal. They've got it covered, and you know, then I do what I do best. Go over all of those questions, unlock the funds, two weeks or less, you're ready to self direct, baby. Like, that's, I think that's the big one for investors, is they think the same thing.
It's like, oh my gosh, it's gotta be complicated. That's why I haven't touched it. Or they talked to someone that had a bad experience. Well, that's the same thing. You know, you guys are awesome at lending and you have your process and procedure down. You're a great investment experience. How many horrible lenders are out there that make it just a process that is scares investors, right? That's the same in every industry, right? Right butts in the right seats
Brendan: Yeah.
Amanda: important.
Brendan: Amanda, out of the customer base that you work with, is it, are you at like 90 percent that are leveraging self direction for passive real estate investing, or do you have people that do self direction for, uh, I don't even know, like angel investing or anything of that caliber. Like what's some of the other domains that
Amanda: Yeah, so I would say probably nine out of ten I've got their hands in real estate in some way shape or form guys, but that is such an overarching umbrella I mean that can be you know private lending rentals commercial tax liens I would lump in there You know, all types of real estate, land, et cetera.
we see a lot of owning, I'm sure you guys have all heard the Peter Thiel example, where they own percentages of a private company. You know, that would be kind of along [00:27:00] the lines of angel investing. Private placements, self storage, things of that nature. All the way to, I mean, we're in Ohio. There's, there's a family down in Summit County.You know what they do in their retirement account? They breed alpacas. That's what they know.
Amanda: I mean, so,
Brendan: The options are endless.
Amanda: I don't want to, I don't want anyone to get the idea of, you know, your pigeon hold, cause you're not. I mean, there's a short list of what the IRS says, like are no no's, and I'll touch on them in a bit, but, then it's Pandora's box is open to you, you know.
So, why don't, cause you guys hear this, I hear this all the time. Why don't the big banks tell you that this exists if it's been around since the 70s?
Brendan: They can't make money if you're borrowing from yourself.
Amanda: That's exactly right. You know, there's no, nobody has their hands in your cookie jar from the self directed side. You know, and that's a big one. I mean, and don't get me wrong, I work with some great fee based advisors that do advise their clients in and outside the market. but your traditional advisory company or one that holds your retirement accounts They're gonna nudge you on the shoulder and say, Hey buddy, you get to pick your stock by mutual fund yourself.
And that's their version of self direction. That's not true self direction, you know. That's like stomping your feet in the McDonald's line saying, I want a filet mignon. I don't care how much you cry, you ain't getting a filet mignon. You know. Laughter But that's how that world works, I think the other funny part of it, and this is always the elephant in the room, so I'm gonna call it out.
is and David you probably got this too. One of the first questions I always get from a client that has no idea about self direction is what are your fees? Because they don't know what else to ask and that's okay, you know, but here's the my question. What do you pay for your account now?
David: It's free. I don't pay anything. That was always the
Amanda: Yeah Yeah, that's not enough profit over there,
you know, but my point is they don't know, you know, and I say this on stages and whatnot, you know, no one ever really knows. And that's not their fault. It is that's how Wall Street is designed. It's not up front, you know, as real estate investors, you look at and you guys see these numbers with your product, you look at all the fixed costs right up front, right? So then you can accurately calculate your
Self directed tools are the same way. Easy one time setup, annual fee based on the value, and all inclusive transaction. Those are the only areas where you see fees in our world, period. Like a title company, right? Like
that's always my example when, um, Our, our industry, you guys, if you've not dabbled in our industry, they get a real bad rap for charging transactional fees.
That's how, like, folks in this industry make up their margins. On the front end. I mean, I'm just calling it business owner business owner. That's how they make up their margins. Okay, how? how We how the self directed like how we differentiate ourselves is Literally instead of charging like a per deal, you know 500 on the buy in the cell 70 for document handling 30 for processing like a title company would you know?
We do flat all inclusive, right and then we pour education into our clients Because we can't advise, but we can educate ya, right? So, the more you are not worried about nickel and dime, right, you're focusing on the big picture, the more incentivized you are to go do deals. The more deals you do, the more money you make, the more money you make, the longer you stay. What a business concept! Oh my word!
Sorry, my sarcasm is a little thick, but you can tell we have fun here. Because we look at it as business owners, right? We're not looking at [00:31:10] it as, some of those gurus of how do you gouge, how do you pad your pockets. You know, if you can help more people get what they want, you're already taken care of.
Period.
Brendan: Mm.
David: I've always thought you had to view it as a, a tool to help operate your business or operate it as a business, although it's a kind of a whole other thing, along those same lines, what are the tools available to you as far as the different types of accounts? So I know we kind of touched on a few, but like when people come to you, Amanda, Maybe they've got a family, they've got some children, right?
I mean, husband, wife, you know, the, the family dynamic, they invest into real estate, like what are the options available to them?
Amanda: Yeah, so, I mean, you've got your personal accounts, right? Which, you know, Roth traditional IRA. You have a health savings account. So those of you out there with a high deductible health savings plan or health insurance plan, you can have and self direct an HSA. Coverdell educational savings accounts. It's like the federal version of 529. Business wise, you have SEPs, SIMPLs, Roth Solo Ks, that's always my favorite, is the Roth Solo K. That's like the entrepreneurial triple threat. let me give you guys some nuggets that are listening. Is, what types of accounts can you self direct? Alright? You know, that's, that's a big one. Cause I get all the time, well, maybe I don't have one of those, Amanda.
I have a TSP. Because you served our country. Thank you very much, but that's the government's version of a 401k guys If you're no longer there, you can self direct TSP's Our firefighters police officers or county workers. They have 457 B's deferred comp plans teachers have Oh purrs for 403 B's 401 a's you can do defined benefits pensions Inherited IRAs are a big one.
That is a very big one so all of these accounts and then more, you know, you can self direct. Qualified annuities is a big one. Ugh, I hate those little devils. They just, they sell you on, but you're gonna have consistent predictable income for this long, but it's only gonna pay you 3 percent consistently for years, and it's like the only thing, cause you have to hedge inflation guys, if you don't make more than inflation, you're going broke slowly.
And that's the only thing you're doing there, is just going broke a little bit slower. sorry, that was very, that was kind of mean, but I stayed home sick with my kid one day and they, you know, watching like PBS, I can't tell you how many annuity commercials I saw. I was like, what, what? Target audience.
Right.
David: Uh huh.
Amanda: Anywho.
David: Yeah.
Amanda: Total sidebar.
David: No, but I mean, I think you are, you are debunking some myths about, retirement plans that people might hold, right? They might hear self directed IRA. Well, my, my plan does not apply to that, right? Because it was through this employer and it's called something else and that's just, it's not apples to apples.
And so I keep it, you know, I keep it there and it earns 3 percent of your, I take it to a financial advisor or whatever. So, you know, I think that's important. The ones that I love, um, that just fascinated me were, the, the CESA accounts, the Coverdell Education Savings Accounts, as well as the HSAs, because you get, you get double tax benefits with those, correct?
You get tax deduction on the way in, and then your growth is tax free on the way out. Now, they're kind of niche accounts, but, if you wanted to take your, you know, child's Coverdell, buy them a property, right? Grow that completely tax free. They pull it out. That's you know, that's their college savings, right?
I just there's a lot of cool concepts you can do with those
Amanda: Yeah.
David: But again, that's your world that's what
Amanda: Absolutely. I mean, and it's the same with the HSA. I mean, you know, majority of folks that are in and around our age, you know, unless you have, you know, a medical condition, you're typically taking the high deductible plan because it's lower monthly premium. So you get that HSA, you get to double dip.
So you can put in, how much is it for a family this year? 77. 50. You get the deduction for that, and then it grows tax free, right? Forever. Well, it never expires guys. I mean, we're all getting old. I always use the analogy of like an old car, you're still going to have to throw money at that junker. Okay.
Like you got to keep it tuned up, you know, and it works for, and it helps for other non traditional stuff. I had a gal, she was just a force to be reckoned with and, she had breast cancer and her insurance didn't cover certain treatments, say acupuncture that helped with the symptoms of chemo.
You know, and through her HSA and a couple wholesale deals, it didn't hurt her pocket one bit going through that traumatic experience because of the combination of having the right type of vehicle and real estate, which is what she knew, you know. So these are just examples. I always like to, you know, I like to say we're problem solvers, Hey, Amanda, I'm paying too much in taxes. Well, have you looked at this? Or, oh, I have a deal, but I don't quite have enough money. Well, let's see where your buckets, that's not a professional financial term, but you'll hear me say it all the time. where are all your buckets? You know, what can we match together to make that deal work?
You know, have you looked at this? have you looked at hard money? cause with, like, with what you do and what we do, it's always parallel, right? You know, and you guys raise capital on the private, you know, the private side as well. You know, which is also full of self directed funds, so.
Brendan: 100%. Amanda, before, before we switch over to the more, uh, like fun and festive, uh, speedrun that we have before we get you out of here, I'm curious if you can give us maybe like two do's and two don'ts with self direction.
Amanda: Okay, so, I'm going to give you the no no's first, and I'm going to give you the do's. Okay, so we're going to do this opposite. So, number one guys, don't self deal. Alright, what the heck does that mean? Alright, and this is, God bless you all, but my what if ers that want to stay after the networking event, and be like, well what if we did this, what if we did that, Amanda?
I'm talking to you. Okay, this is what self dealing is. Self dealing is when you buy something with your retirement account that you already own or you're doing a deal where you're benefiting in the here and now today. Okay, guys, it's a retirement account. When does the IRS want you to benefit from a retirement account?
Yes, In your retirement. So,
David: not 35 years old even if you are
Amanda: Right. And I mean, I'll get a lot of those, like they just hear about this. They're like, Oh my gosh, I can take my own 401k and like fund my own LLC, right? No, you cannot. You are a walking prohibited transaction is what we call you. We don't do that. Okay. number two, no, no.
It just has to do with family. Okay. So above you, below you on your family tree, the trunk of the tree. Is off limits. So your spouse, parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren. Your dad's old 401k cannot fund your deals in your retirement account or your business. Okay, that's a no go. If they're a branch of the tree, okay, everybody stick your arms out.
Who's a branch? Brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Fair game. All right, no beneficiaries or fiduciaries either, but they're not, you're not related to them typically, you know. So if your brother wants to fund your deals, Fantastic. Uncle George wants to fund your deals? Fantastic. So keep that in mind, you know, as far as like who is on the no no list.
You know, those are one of the two big, like, cardinal rules. There's a couple black and white things that have nothing to do with real estate. Which, you know, we'll tell you if you fall into those. But, the do's. When do you start saving for retirement? Yesterday. Your do is open a freaking Roth IRA.
That's number one. I don't care and for those of you who are like my CPA told me I make too much for a Roth IRA That's been BS since 2010. Everyone Regardless of income or age can have a Roth IRA as long as they got that earned income Here's my objection that I get and I'm talking to like my teenagers and my early 20 somethings.
Well, Amanda, what do you think their objection is?
David: I don't have earned income
Amanda: Well, if they have earned income, what do you think they're, I mean in college, we're all broke, right?
David: money to put in a
Amanda: Yeah, what if I need that money? What if I got to pay rent? You know, I can't put that money away. The contributions you put in a Roth IRA, you can take out anytime, tax free, penalty free.
It's just the earnings that have to stay. What if savings accounts pay? Squat. So if you're saving that money, why wouldn't you put it in a Roth IRA? Like there's no, no objection whatsoever as to why, you know, so that would be my number one do from the personal side. the second one is take control of your finances and that all that has to do with self direction But that is an overarching message because I'm not trying to be self serving to this audience here Takecontrol of your finances know what the heck you're earning and what you're paying for Because the number one thing like comment I hear and I'm just sharing like trying to avoid future pain for you guys is Man, I wish I would have heard about this 10 15 20 years ago And you know why?
Because they didn't take, take time to listen to podcasts like this or to self educate themselves. So now they're falling into victim mode mindset of, their backs are finally pushed up against the wall to where they felt the pain enough that they had to take action. Don't wait for that and just be proactive a little bit at a time.
Whether it's listen to a podcast a week or look at one, one or two accounts a week and that all adds up. It doesn't have to be a huge mountain to climb. And then have the conversation. Right? How many times, David, or Brennan, do you talk to someone where they're like, I didn't feel like I was, you know, able to talk to that person.
Or, like, I'm not at the level to talk to that person.
Brendan: Mm.
Amanda: Like,
David: have this, uh, this syndrome, right? This complex of I'm not worthy. You're like,
Amanda: you know, Look, I'm gonna shoot it to you straight. And those of you that work with me already know this. You know, I'm gonna tell you one thing I pride myself on doing is I'm gonna take all your excuses off the table So the only rear end you have to kick is your own number one. Number two is If you are not ready to do this yet, that's okay Then you get an action plan to get there, but it starts with the conversation, you know So I'll put it in the show notes like I will have you you have a direct link to my calendar have that conversation I'm more than happy to do that.
Right, David? I mean, that's how, like, you know, that's how we had reconnected, just at an event. It was like, hey, let's meet up for coffee. he knows what I do.
Brendan: Mm.
Amanda: But there was still value that came from that. And the same is for you, that's listening here. So, those would be my two.
Brendan: I love it. Super, super helpful. Very applicable. Thank you, Amanda. so our, our fall speed round, we're going to give you a four, this or that fall themed round. Uh, items, I think they're all item space, yeah. So I'll read the first two, David read the second two, uh, tell us which one you would prefer and if you want to give us a why, feel free, might be better content, so we'll take it.
Amanda: ahead.
Brendan: Pumpkin pie or apple pie,
Amanda: apple pie, I like apples.
David: Yeah. Yeah.
Brendan: dress up or dress down for dinner,
Amanda: Um, one, okay,
ladies. I'm just going to paint this picture.
Brendan: Ha
Amanda: I am now 40 years old and unless I am going on stage or I have a date night scheduled, I have a whole section of my wardrobe that does not get touched. Very often. Okay? So if we have the opportunity at this stage of life to sauce it up, you betcha.And for those of you, if you've seen me, you always know I've got the red lips, uh, like I, yeah, I go all, I'm always overdressed. I can be in my yoga,
David: Preach.
Amanda: I can be in my yoga pants right now.
David: Preach. Yeah. Since 2020, if I get an opportunity to put a suit on, it's a good opportunity. Yeah.
Amanda: Absolutely. Oh,
David: Um,
Amanda: for IRAs. I'm sorry. Let me mute that.
David: that's, that's all right. all right. I got your next one. Stuffing or green bean casserole.
Amanda: It has to be the stuffing that was in the bird on Thanksgiving.
Brendan: mm,
David: None of the stovetop
Amanda: Not that stovetop stuff. I don't like that. The smell makes me nauseous. I don't like it. But if it's
David: All right.
Amanda: stuffing in the bird.
Brendan: fair.
Amanda: Otherwise, green beans all the way.
David: Now this last one's an interesting question. Watch football or play
football?
Amanda: I have a six year old. This is his first year playing football. So that is a toughie.
Brendan: Oh,
Amanda: I mean, I like,
David: mom get out there on the field and like stiff arm kids
Amanda: um, not so much with all of the kids, but I will tell you they all tried to tackle me and it takes three of them. So we'll go with watch football because I'm a Browns fan, you guys, and it's all about the ta
Brendan: there we go. I love it.I loveit. Amanda, thanks so much for being a good sport and running us through all the self direction. Um, a lot of really good content for the listeners. And I want to also give you an opportunity to shout out ways for people to get in touch with you. I know we're going to link some stuff in the show notes, but um, how else can people keep up to date
with what you're doing?
Amanda: Absolutely, so you can always get a hold of me with, SpecializedTrustCompany.com. That's our website, you know, if you go on there, you register for the book, you'll get me there. always social media, I'm very responsive there. All of my personal contact info is gonna be in the show notes, but I will just tell you, A.
Holbrook, H O L B R O O K, at I R A S T C. com. Just drop me an email. We'll get our calendars linked, but, and I'll have a link to my calendar in the show notes. That link is way too long to get verbally. But I'm always happy to connect and I find that when you're, when you do podcasts and events, it's, you know, you know, oh, do they have time?
You know, will they really get back to little me? Of course we will. Like, that's, you know, that's the key. I think that's one of the things in business, you know, you go talk to that big guy, right? All the time because it's they're just you're just people so no, I love that's the fun part about what I do Is all the people yes, there's compliance and paperwork.
Those are not my joys but it's the people like that's that's the fun part. So no, thank you for asking me that by the way
Brendan: yeah, we appreciate the availability and I'm sure the listeners will as well. Amanda, uh, we're going to go ahead and sign us off and thanks again so much for, uh,
for joining
Amanda: Thank you guys for having me. This has been great. One, two, three go team
